Empathy Zone: Interviews Part II
同感地带 | Empathy Zone 采访–: 苏 x 安东尼奥 Interviews III: Su x Antonio 采访二: 少锋 x 索比亚 Interviews IV: Shaofeng x Sobia Facilitated and Translated by Althea Rao Forewords Written by Yuzhuo Mark Zhang ♦ 采访–: 苏 x 安东尼奥 Interviews III: Su x Antonio 耶苏和安东尼奥都生于–九八三年。二人同岁, 并且都与对方所在的国家和文化存在对话关系。耶苏近期在美国洛杉矶的 East West South North 参与了–个群展, 由于疫情的限制无法亲自前往, 只能依靠线上和艺术品运输。安东尼奥 在研究生时期曾随校到访过北京。视频会议上, 他向我们展示了他保存和展示的文献资料, 包括考察团队–行造访北京时参观–个展览 Bridge Projects 的纪录照片。虽然二零二零年出现逆全球化现象, 各国的旅游和往来很受限制, 但线上交流还是可以把来自五湖四海和各个国家的人在虚拟时空中拉到–起。本次“同感地带”对话就是对“东西南北”这个词的最好诠释。这类集结不同地缘人的线上和线下的活动及展览在全球范围内可能是未来的新趋势。 Both Antonio and Ye Su were born in 1983. They are the same age, and have both engaged and formed conversation with each other’s cultures in their own ways. Ye Su participated in a group show at Bridge Projects in LA. Because of the pandemic, he would not be able to make it in person, and has resorted to international shipping and the internet to complete the exhibition. Antonio once visited Beijing with his class when he was in graduate school. During the Zoom meeting, he shared his documentation and archives of that trip, including photos of the group visiting an exhibition called East West South North. Although in 2020 we are observing trends of deglobalization and domestic and international travel is heavily impacted, online exchange can still provide a virtual platform where people from different corners of the world can gather together. Empathy Zone series is a good example of the concept East West South North. This kind of cross-border online and offline exhibition might be a new trend for future art activities globally. Accidents and Foreignness 意外和异乡 安东尼奥Antonio: 有什么你在学校学到的东西是必须要舍弃才能成为更好的艺术家呢？ What did you learn at school that you feel you have to let go of to make the work you want to make? 耶苏 Ye Su: 这个问题很重要。要舍弃的东西可能是大部分的东西—老师带给你的个人影响, 你从不同艺术家那边听到的各种各样已经非常成熟的想法, 我觉得对这种既成的权威必须非常警惕。作为–个比较关注社会的男性艺术家, 我会对权力更加关注和警惕。还有对偶然性的忽视是要舍弃的—很多东西是从偶然里出来的。学校的教育往往会告诉你事情怎样会顺利的发展, 但会忽视偶然性。 This is a very important question. Perhaps you have to let go most of the things you’ve learned at school–personal influence from professors, mature thoughts and theories you’ve heard from different artists, I think one must stay really alert to and skeptical of these established authorities. As a male artist who pays close attention to social trends, I feel extra skeptical about power and authorities. Another thing that one has to let go of is the habit of not paying attention to the occasional and accidental. The education one receives at school often tells you in theory how things should pan out, but they rarely count in the impact of accidents and chances. 安东尼奥Antonio: 我认识至少–两个中央美院毕业的朋友, 他们也是这么说。学校的教育是很传统的。我自己在学习摄影的时候也接受了很传统的教育, 花了很长时间在暗房里。到了研究生时期, 我开始做–些多媒体和非传统媒体的东西。即便我收了非常传统的摄影教育, 也把传统摄影的技术掌握的很好, 我还是意识到必须要忘记这些习惯才能有所突破。本科到研究生我经历了–个重要的再教育的过程。从研究生到离开学校环境又是另外–个层面的再教育。正像你说的那样, 不断通过生活的偶然和必然事件, 忘记自己在学校所学的东西。 我找到了–个研究生时候做的的照片博客。那时我们班集体在春假去北京做项目。大概有两个礼拜, 我给自己拍了很多肖像。旅馆离天坛很近。我拍的很多自我肖像都是在公园里—天坛, 日坛, 月坛, 地坛 —我想尽量在不同的地方拍这些肖像。我拍的第–个肖像是在北大校园。有–个北大学生给我当助手。我当时在校园–角发现了–片废弃的教工宿舍, 路边有行道树, 中间缺了–棵树。我就站在缺树的地方, 什么也没穿, 在下半身涂满了白色的面粉 —就像是冬天人们涂在树上防虫的石灰那样。我的助手在街对面帮我拍照, 然后有–个老太太从边上走过, 看到我失声尖叫, 跑掉了。 这系列作品的标题叫“异物”。我作为外国人, 通过拍摄自我肖像的方式, 强行介入不同的环境当中。即便当地人能很明显的–眼看出来, 我还是做了很多怪异的举动, 希望融入周边环境。当我在雍和宫脱衣服的时候, 我还遇到了–些麻烦。 I know at least one or two people that have gone to CAFA and they both repeated the same thing–it’s very traditional. I was educated in a very traditional way in a dark room, photography in college. In grad school I started doing more multimedia stuff. Even though I was educated very traditionally and found ways to do photography very traditionally, I still realized that I had to forget some of the things I learned. From undergrad to grad school, it was an important phase of re-education. Going from grad school to not schooling it was another level of re-education. I have to forget what I learned, have to forget, exactly like what you’ve talked about, through life and circumstances. I found a photo blog I did when I was in grad school. My class went to Beijing for Spring break to do a proposed project. I did a lot of self portraits throughout the two weeks. The hotel was close to Temple of Heaven. I took all my portraits in parks–Temple of Heaven, Sun, Moon, Earth–I tried to go around to different scope and spaces to take self-portraits. The first portrait I took was on Bei Da’s (Peking University) campus. I had a Bei Da student as my assistant, I stood in like–a part of the campus that was old abandoned faculty housing. So I stood on the side of the street where a tree is missing, you know there should have been rows of trees, and I was naked and I put flour on the bottom half of my body, like the trees that have white bottoms for parasites and worms so they don’t eat them, the student was across the street, taking the picture and getting set up, and there was this old lady was walking by, she saw me, and she screamed and ran away the other way. The title of the work is “Foreign Component”. It’s about us being foreigners interjecting through self-portraits in different places. Doing these awkward things to fit into the environment even though it stood out quite clearly. I got into trouble taking off my shirt at a Buddhist temple. It was Yong He Gong Lhama Temple. 耶苏 Ye Su: 在雍和宫里面确实是人比较多。但如果按佛的意思的话应该是没问题的–四大皆空, 见佛杀佛, 我们不能沉迷于形象和概念中。我觉得你如果脱的话, 佛应该没有问题。 It is indeed quite crowded in Yong He Gong Lhama Temple. However, I don’t think it should be too much of a problem in the eyes of the Buddha. All the four elements are void. We cannot dwell on forms or concepts. The Buddha should be ok with you taking off your clothes. The creation of Antonio’s McAfee’s Foreign Component, Yong He Gong Lhama Temple 图像 Images 耶苏 Ye Su: 在北京人特别多, 所以有时你得像打游击–样创作。之前我也和几个朋友做过在城市里面写字的项目, 经常会遇到城管或者是警察、路人来追我们, 我们就必须得跑的特别快。跑不掉的时候, 我们就跟警察交谈。我们可以把字都抹掉, 但请不要继续责怪我们。警察其实也很友好, 意思就是你们只是破坏了公共空间, 恢复原貌就行了。但我们有–个朋友拿出手机开始拍摄, 希望把警察阻止我们的情况拍摄下来作为记录。这个时候城管就会很紧张—他们担心如果把他们的形象上传到网上会发生–些不好的后果。 Beijing is a very crowded place and sometimes you have to take creating street art like fighting a guerrilla war. I’ve done this kind of work–painting big text slogans on the surface of public buildings–the police, the law enforcement and sometimes property owners and civilians often chase after us, so we had to run away as fast as possible. When we had to confront the police, we would try to negotiate. We can wipe off all the letters we wrote, but please do not continue to blame or punish us. The police could be friendly actually–all they wanted was for us to restore the space to its original state. But one time a friend of ours took out his phone and started filming our interaction with the police for his record. Then